Discussion about this isolated USB to SPDIF converter - it's not just isolating the I2S output signal lines after the USB receiver - it isolates & reforms the incoming USB signals before the USB receiver. This is the optimal configuration!
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Discussion about this isolated USB to SPDIF converter - it's not just isolating the I2S output signal lines after the USB receiver - it isolates & reforms the incoming USB signals before the USB receiver. This is the optimal configuration!
Is this purely for people who prefer spdif? Or is there genuine benefits over USB?
Regards
Matt
Hi, Matt, some people own DACs that don't have USB input - hard to believe, I know :)
So this allows them to connect to their computer as a music source using a USB to SPDIF converter, such as the Ciunas SPDIF converter or this ISO-SPDIF converter.
Even without USB isolation (the ISO devices), my experience is that well implemented USB sounds better than a well implemented SPDIF connection.
Hey John,
No it's not so hard to beleive, some people (like me) are very loyal to the equipment they share a past with. Yet, I miss the sound from CD player (which died few years back). :)
" Even without USB isolation (the ISO devices), my experience is that well implemented USB sounds better than a well implemented SPDIF connection. "
I was just about to order the ISO-SPDIF, and now this got me worried. :)
I own an oldie but goldie Yamaha (http://www.hifi-review.com/153478-yamaha-dsp-a3090.html) surround amplifier, and in terms of digital inputs, all I have is Toslink and S/PDIF. My goal is to listen to music in "front speakers only", so stereo mode, and enjoy the movie surround sound via Doly Digital (AC-3). Source of my media files is an Android box running Android v7, with USB DAC support.
I'm currently feeding the music directly to analogue RCA inputs via a Wolfson DAC (Bluetooth), and this sounds pretty nice, especially compared to the sound that I get if I feed FLAC via Toslink to the very same amplifier. So, to some degree, I'm aware of what the Yamaha is capable of delivering, yet, I get no satisfaction from Toslink inputted music.
I was hoping to go to the next level with your ISO-SPDIF invention, feeding FLAC (and AC-3) from Android to Yamaha. Am I on the right track? Feel free to express yourself, no need for being political. *grin*
Thanks!
Thanks for your post & questions.
I don't do political speak very well - I prefer to get to the heart of matters & bypass BS - BS wastes so much time.
Anyway, in digital audio I still rate the following inputs from best sound quality & down (all assuming best implementation)
USB
SPDIF
Toslink
I don't know the Yamaha amplifier but looked at the link & read further about it's SPDIF input. It seems to be rated fine & the amplifier seems to be well regarded so I can understand your wish to hold onto it.
You have a 30 day return policy if you purchase the ISO-SPDIF to home trial it. If you find that it doesn't give you the upgrade in sound quality you hope for, just return it but I have not had any returned so far!
Agreed. :)
Okay, I understand. Just for completeness sake, where would you put HDMI sound? Or put differently, if one would have AVR with all of the inputs from above, which one is generally best?
Good point, placing my order today. *grin*
Thanks for the order & let us know here what you think of the sound when you receive the ISO-SPDIF.
I would rate HDMI between SPDIF & Toslink but all this is just a very rough ranking - it really is far more complex as there are many factors at play when interconnecting devices in an audio system.
As far as music/stereo is concerned, I'm pretty sure it's going to be an ecstatic experience, no doubt in my mind, and I'll be glad to share my experience with you!
I'm more worried with AC-3 (Dolby Digital), if there will be at sound at all... Especially since I'll be streaming it from Android box (if I understand correctly, Android v7 (Api level 24) supports only USB Audio Class 1 at the moment, and I assume I'll need UAC2 for the AC-3). Reports for other U2S converters are scarce on the internet, and no clear clue about what makes it work and what doesn't. I guess there is only one way to find out anyway. :)
Yes, an OS capable of USB class 2 UAC2 is needed for high throughput communication - all my devices are UAC2 devices.
So your devices are UAC2 only? I'm coming from this " A UAC2 device can connect as a USB 2.0 device and can operate at either Full Speed or High Speed. However the UAC2 specification states that, “the changes introduced in UAC2 are not generally backwards compatible to UAC1.” Therefore a USB audio device must choose to declare itself as either a UAC1 device or a UAC2 device at enumeration. " from here: http://www.epsglobal.com/downloads/XMOS/Why-do-you-need-USB-Audio-Class-2.pdf
Because up until now, I was assuming UAC2 is/are all together independant audio specific functions of USB drivers, but judging from the link above, UAC class goes hand in hand with USB interface type, 1 or 2. So now I'm in relief, as I have USB 3 on my box... Hence I guess UAC2 is given?
The Amanero USB receiver which is used in my devices operate at USB 2.0 high speed, hence UAC2. They do not operate at USB full speed or UAC1. UAC class is dependent on the software driver, not on the USB interface - UAC2 is now native to most operating systems ever since it was introduced recently in Windows 10 - it has been native in Linux (Mac OS) for a while.
Hi,
I wonder why don't you have AES and I2S output option in this device ?
Good question - I2S is designed for inter chip data transport over short distances not for data connections between devices. In my past dealings with some devices I modified to include I2S output, I found that people didn't really know the I2S output configuration they needed & it often resulted in returned devices after a lot of remote diagnosing.
AES output is just something that I haven't been asked for so I don't sense there is enough demand.
I prefer to focus on optimising sound quality in USB audio rather than provide marketing bells & whistles.
Thank you! Great informations here.
I wonder if there are new discount programe for this product in very near future?
You know there's a 25% discount so plying at the moment?
Arg i see ! Will order one soon!
😁 you won't regret it
Hello.
I just signed in because I'm in the market for a USB to SPDiF converter. I read your post on WBF, which brought me to your website. I have ordered a SW1X Audio Design DAC III STD with SPDiF or XLR inputs. My source is a Mac Mini with USB out.
Can you talk a bit more about the benefits of your converter, and why it's right for my system?
Regards,
Michael
Welcome Michael
My USB audio devices address the issues that seem to plague most USB signals - noise & signal degradation. Computers (particularly Mac Minis) & USB cables are the two main culprits for these issues. I deal with these at the receiving end of the USB cable by isolating & reformatting the USB signals coming into the ISO-SPDIF. I also reclock the I2S signal just before it enters the SPDIF chip. All of this is powered by the very low noise, highly stable power of supercapacitors
The result of all this is that the output SPDIF signal is optimal & results in an audibly better sound.
But I would say that, wouldn't I? Or I could just say that people seem to like the sound :)
There is a 30 day trial period for people to make up their own mind in their own audio system.
PS. I'm just finalising new pricing on the supercapacitor versions of all my audio devices
Hi John, I can’t find any info on what clocks you use. Are you keep that a secret or can you share? The reason I ask, is that I have tried many spdif converters and even clocks have their own sound sig. Also, I am using a ANK DAC which has zero jitter rediction and so I need the lowest jitter I can get in my Spdif convertor. I currently am using a Digione (NDK clocks) and it’s a great combo with the ANK DAC. But I am considering your device instead of upgrading to the Digione signature With NDK SDAs.
Also, I have a Teddy Pardo 5v LPS. How would this be best used in a Pi - ISO USB/SPDIF combo? Power the Pi or ISO? Does it make a difference if the USB Cable has a power leg or not?
Thanks!
Hi Bill
I use NDK SD, not SDA clocks. Here's my take on clocks that I have gathered over time from RF experts & my own experience. These experts have said that clocks advertised as low jitter, such as NDK SD & even SDA are pot luck to a large extent. They say that the jitter graphs posted for these clocks are for selected best clocks from production runs. How many clocks come close to these jitter figures - it appears that it's a small percentage. Jocko Homo (Pat G) is an expert in clocks & RF - he has measured & graded NDK SD clocks from a large batch production run & the best ones were few. What you don't see on these jitter plots is the close-in phase noise or low frequency jitter which is said to be the most important sound-wise. He measured, plotted & graded this batch of SD clocks & sold the few that measured well for $25. I bought some to check how they improved the sound - there was some improvement in sound stage & realism but not as much as the improvements I got when other areas were addressed.
The jitter at the DAC chip I2S input (where it matters) is not just from the inherent clock jitter, it comes from many other areas - stable power supply, noise on the ground, noise picked up by the I2S signal lines before the DAC. I believe these other areas are far more audibly important than the clock jitter itself.
I have addressed all these areas to the best of my ability & each improved the sound noticeably. I firstly used battery power (just recently changed to supercapacitors) to provide as stable & low noise PS as possible. I then synchronously reclocked the I2S lines (i.e using the same two audio clocks that initially generated the I2S signals) just before they enter the DAC chip & finally I isolated & reclocked the USB signal before the USB Amanero receiver. These changes were made as a result of testing & experiments along with listening tests.
Eliminating all these other sources that introduce jitter allowed me to evaluate just what audible improvements result from using a measured, low jitter clock (bought from Jocko) A small audible improvement improvement seems to be the result.
BTW, the improvements from using better clocks are along the same lines as my other jitter reduction areas, just less so - more dynamic sound, more solid 3D sound stage, more realism to the sound.
Great answer John, and I fully agree. I’m glad you use the NDK clocks as to me they always sound more natural then Crystek, but I don’t know why.
Thanks Bill
Forgot to say - I believe you will find the ISO-SPDIF warrants a listen but I would say that, wouldn't I? Of course a home audition is the only way to evaluate & compare to other devices - a refund if you return it within 30 days.
John, I want to understand better the differences between ISO-SPDIF with battery and ISO-SPDIF with supercapacitor. Sound different?
Thanks you
Hi Ricardo
There's a webpage about the difference here. If you have further questions, don't hesitate to ask